Re: Have mercy please!

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Hi Jon,

Thanks for sharing your experience.

On 06/09/2015 07:25 PM, Jon Foster wrote:
> I've been involved with Django, on and off, since v0.96 or so. I love
> Django and think its the most productive way to build rich websites with
> custom defined content types. Throw in Django-CMS and things get pretty
> darn cool.
>
> I was thrilled when Django reached v1.0 since it came with the promise
> of having a consistent and stable API, specifically a lack of backwards
> incompatible changes, unless required by security concerns.
> Unfortunately this promise is routinely violated for various excuses.
> The bottom line is none of the apps I've written have been able to
> survive any 2 point upgrades (v+0.2). Single point upgrades usually only
> cause minor breakage.

This last confuses me, so I'd like to get clarity. If "single point
upgrades usually only cause minor breakage", then a two point upgrade is
just two single point upgrades, one after the other, correct?

Trying to upgrade directly from e.g. 1.6 to 1.8 without first going
through 1.7 - by which I mean "having a fully working site that passes
its tests with no deprecation warnings in 1.7" -- is definitely not
recommended.

So is the problem here that you've been trying to do a two-version
upgrade directly, instead of version-by-version? Or that "upgrade with
minor breakage" + "upgrade with minor breakage" = "too much for the
project to survive"?

> I realize the desire to grow things and I applaud it. But there is a
> business issue here. I can't, in good conscience recommend Django as a
> site platform to many of my small clients as they simply could not
> afford the upkeep of a Django powered site. Especially if the site is
> e-commerce related, where PCI, and responsible site operation, will
> require that we stay current. In order to do so would require staying up
> with the constant flow of backwards incompatible changes, combined with
> the time and effort to reverse engineer and maintain contributed apps,
> which aren't keeping pace either.
>
> With the current method of development on the Django platform, if I had
> just a dozen sites of moderate complexity, it would become a full time
> job just keeping them updated. Its complicated enough just finding the
> apps that will actually work with each other to construct a site. But
> the carefully constructed house of cards is virtually guaranteed to
> break with the next update.
>
> So I ask, PLEASE return to and stick with the promise of API stability?
> You promised and routinely point to that statement, while making
> backwards incompatible changes. I want to spend more time working with
> Django, but I need to know that my clients can rely on painless and cost
> effective upgrades.
>
> Thanks for reading my complaint,
> Jon
>
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