On 1/02/2018 9:50 AM, Matthew Pava wrote:
> I just want to point out something called WebAssembly. It's supported across all modern browsers. Presumably, you can write a program in Python, convert it to WebAssembly, and it will run in your browser. I haven't worked with it myself, but I am keeping my eye on it because I would like to think it will become more widely adopted in the not-so-distant future.
>
http://webassembly.org/
Cute demo!
If all the browser makers have agreed to make it work that does make it
interesting. But they all agreed on Javascript as well. I guess they
said they have one scripting language and don't need Python as another.
Better to introduce a compiler. What could possibly go wrong? All we
need now is a Python to WebAssembly transpiler ;)
Cheers
M
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From:
django-users@googlegroups.com [mailto:
django-users@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Mike Dewhirst
> Sent: Wednesday, January 31, 2018 4:29 PM
> To:
django-users@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: javascript transpilers
>
> On 30/01/2018 6:33 PM, Andréas Kühne wrote:
>> 2018-01-30 5:18 GMT+01:00 Mike Dewhirst <
miked@dewhirst.com.au
>> <mailto:
miked@dewhirst.com.au>>:
>>
>> On 29/01/2018 9:03 PM, Nick Sarbicki wrote:
>>
>> Going SPA when you don't know JS is very much a baptism of fire.
>>
>> Angular is personally my favourite too and essentially forces
>> the SPA model. But it has a much bigger learning curve
>> compared to Vue and React (the other two common names thrown
>> about nowadays). The others are also easier to not force into
>> a SPA model.
>>
>> Figure what's the minimum requirement first ;-).
>>
>>
>> Single page is pretty close to the way the application currently
>> works so that is promising. It is a lightweight training
>> framework. Simple architecture of courses, instruction(s) and
>> questions with answers aggregating a total score for the student.
>>
>> I won't publicise the URL because the server isn't heavy-duty. But
>> if there is any individual interest I'm happy to give it off-list.
>> Today I released the beta to the first client who (generously) is
>> using it for his troops to do online training on how to use some
>> Windows software.
>>
>> So back to the minimum requirement ...
>>
>> The single (question) page has previous-question and next-question
>> links which morph into previous-instruction and next-instruction
>> links when at the first and last question respectively. So that is
>> the SPA similarity.
>>
>> When you click the [Save] button after answering a question there
>> is no indication the answer has been saved without adding a line
>> of text (via the view) after answer.save()
>>
>> Refreshing the page resends the [Save] and reprints the line of
>> text saying the [Save] was successful. Too clunky.
>>
>>
>> If you are using django in the "normal" way - you should just be able
>> to add the message to the messages contrib package. Then the message
>> should show when saving? Because when you click on the save button you
>> should post your form and that method should (when successful) add the
>> message?
> Hadn't thought of that! Must investigate the messages package.
>
>
>> It was that behaviour which made me start this thread.
>>
>> I checked out typescript and it looks great but it is javascript.
>> It seems to let you code in ECMAScript 6 which is looking more
>> like Python and as Nick mentioned, has a compilation step (which I
>> suppose is like a minification step anyway) to get it into the
>> version currently supported by all browsers.
>>
>>
>> Typescript is more of a object oriented language than javascript is -
>> at least compared to ECMAScript 5. It also has some support for typing
>> - and great unittest support - which is criticle when writing
>> javascript....
> Agreed
>
>> That prompted me to look more closely at a few of the transpilers
>> in the link I posted in the thread-starter. One stood out for me
>> ...
http://www.transcrypt.org/
>>
>> It seems the compilation to javascript takes place in the CI
>> process and it can be debugged in Python or Javascript. You can
>> use both javascript and/or python libraries. Written by a Dutchman
>> which is possibly interesting ;)
>>
>>
>> What you have to remember is that you still need to transpile it when
>> running in development mode. So it really doesn't matter where you do
>> your transpilation. You need to setup the transpilation even in
>> development - a webb browser can't run python natively.
> True. However, Transcript produces Javascript. Interestingly you debug in python or Javascript.
>
> I'll have to allocate some time to investigate but in any case I think DRF comes first.
>
>> The Angular thing is interesting.
>>
https://medium.com/@chriscordle/why-angular-2-4-is-too-little-too-late-ea86d7fa0bae
>>
>> <
https://medium.com/@chriscordle/why-angular-2-4-is-too-little-too-lat
>> e-ea86d7fa0bae>
>>
>>
https://www.infoworld.com/article/3213244/javascript/whats-new-in-angular-5-easier-progressive-web-apps.html
>>
>> <
https://www.infoworld.com/article/3213244/javascript/whats-new-in-ang
>> ular-5-easier-progressive-web-apps.html>
>>
>> >From those articles, it seems React is lighter-weight than
>> Angular and for me that probably means easier to learn. It is
>> still daunting though. Vue also assumes javascript know-how.
>>
>>
>> Yes react is more lightweight. However it is like comparing the flask
>> framework with django. The difference is very similar. React is more a
>> library and angular is a framework.
> I suspect React is super efficient. Facebook use it and they shave very close to the bone.
>
>> I think my best plan is to postpone a decision and make a start on
>> DRF anyway. No matter what happens that is a prerequisite.
>>
>> I hope it isn't wishful thinking but Transcrypt looks more
>> attractive than learning javascript plus a javascript framework.
>>
>>
>> The main problem here is that you will still need to learn javascript
>> - because you need to understand what will happen when your
>> client-side code fails (and it will :-)). And my other point is still
>> valid. Look at the user base. When you have problems with transcrypt,
>> how many users can you rely on to get help? If you have a pure
>> javascript problem - how many users can you rely on for help?
> Excellent points. But it is difficult to dislodge wishful thinking.
> There will be two sets of code. Python which I hope I can debug and automatically generated Javascript which definitely will (I agree) have bugs. I would have had to debug Javascript anyway and I reckon forced debugging Javascript will let me skip the awful step of deciding to learn Javascript. I mean that's a depressing decision to have to make.
>
> Maybe by the time I get DRF working Transcrypt will have a few more users? I really want to avoid Javascript. And I know Transcrypt would not have been written unless the authors felt the same way. If it works there will be a flood of users. It comes with a lot of promise(s).
>
>> I do hope that you find a solution that works for you though :-)
> Haven't made any decisions yet - apart from DRF and the messages investigation.
>
> Many thanks for helping :)
>
> Mike
>
>
>> Thanks to all for the excellent and very professional feedback.
>>
>> Cheers
>>
>> Mike
>>
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Andréas
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Jan 29, 2018 at 9:15 AM Andréas Kühne
>> <
andreas.kuhne@hypercode.se
>> <mailto:
andreas.kuhne@hypercode.se>
>> <mailto:
andreas.kuhne@hypercode.se
>> <mailto:
andreas.kuhne@hypercode.se>>> wrote:
>>
>> If that is the case - I would recommend looking into
>> creating a
>> single page app - with Django restframework on the backend
>> if you
>> want to continue with Django. For the frontend you will
>> however be
>> required to learn some sort of JS framework - however this
>> doesn't
>> have to be THAT bad. I personally like angular 5 - which is
>> written in typescript - a javascript based language - that
>> actually removes most of the pain. HOWEVER JS knowledge is
>> good to
>> have anyway....
>>
>> There are other frameworks that don't require that much JS
>> knowledge and Jason suggested GWT which sounds like it
>> could be
>> worth a shot, as long as it doesn't add to much
>> complexity. The
>> main reason for using that would be a large user base, so
>> you can
>> get help. The python transpiled JS versions don't really
>> have the
>> greatest user base :-)
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Andréas
>>
>> 2018-01-29 0:00 GMT+01:00 Mike Dewhirst
>> <
miked@dewhirst.com.au <mailto:
miked@dewhirst.com.au>
>> <mailto:
miked@dewhirst.com.au
>> <mailto:
miked@dewhirst.com.au>>>:
>>
>> That seems unanimous :(
>>
>> Jani asked what problem I need to solve. Without going
>> into
>> analytical detail, all the code is serverside and now the
>> project needs to move towards AJAX for user experience
>> reasons.
>>
>> M
>>
>> On 29/01/2018 5:44 AM, Nick Sarbicki wrote:
>>
>>
>> Agree with everything already said.
>>
>> Only thing I want to add is that while js has
>> historically
>> been a horrible language, the modern standards
>> have helped
>> rectify this. Modern js can be almost pleasant to work
>> with nowadays.
>>
>> I wouldn't spend time transpiling python to js.
>> Just try
>> to learn js and maybe transpile from a modern
>> standard to
>> the browser standard. It's almost as easy as python to
>> pick up.
>>
>> Django compressor helps greatly in the last case.
>>
>>
>> On Sun, 28 Jan 2018, 16:49 Avraham Serour,
>> <
tovmeod@gmail.com <mailto:
tovmeod@gmail.com>
>> <mailto:
tovmeod@gmail.com <mailto:
tovmeod@gmail.com>>
>> <mailto:
tovmeod@gmail.com
>> <mailto:
tovmeod@gmail.com> <mailto:
tovmeod@gmail.com
>> <mailto:
tovmeod@gmail.com>>>> wrote:
>>
>> If you don't want and don't have the time to
>> learn JS
>> you may as
>> well consider outsourcing the frontend work, I've
>> worked in places
>> that did just that and everybody was happy, the
>> internal team
>> liked python and the outsourced company people
>> liked
>> UX and JS.
>>
>> On Sun, Jan 28, 2018 at 6:09 PM, Jani Tiainen
>> <
redetin@gmail.com <mailto:
redetin@gmail.com>
>> <mailto:
redetin@gmail.com <mailto:
redetin@gmail.com>>
>> <mailto:
redetin@gmail.com
>> <mailto:
redetin@gmail.com> <mailto:
redetin@gmail.com
>> <mailto:
redetin@gmail.com>>>>
>> wrote:
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> You don't describe to what extent you need
>> to use
>> JavaScript -
>> IOW, what problem you need to solve with
>> JavaScript?
>>
>> Depending you needs you might get away
>> with basic
>> knowledge
>> and usage of some helpful JavaScript
>> library/framework.
>>
>> On Sun, Jan 28, 2018 at 12:44 AM, Mike
>> Dewhirst
>> <
miked@dewhirst.com.au
>> <mailto:
miked@dewhirst.com.au>
>> <mailto:
miked@dewhirst.com.au
>> <mailto:
miked@dewhirst.com.au>>
>> <mailto:
miked@dewhirst.com.au
>> <mailto:
miked@dewhirst.com.au>
>>
>> <mailto:
miked@dewhirst.com.au
>> <mailto:
miked@dewhirst.com.au>>>> wrote:
>>
>> I have avoided javascript like the plague.
>> However it
>> seems I have to bite the bullet.
>> Interestingly, there are
>> now a number of Python -> Javascript
>> transpilers.
>>
>>
http://stromberg.dnsalias.org/~strombrg/pybrowser/python-browser.html
>>
>> <
http://stromberg.dnsalias.org/%7Estrombrg/pybrowser/python-browser.ht
>> ml>
>>
>> <
http://stromberg.dnsalias.org/%7Estrombrg/pybrowser/python-browser.html
>>
>> <
http://stromberg.dnsalias.org/%7Estrombrg/pybrowser/python-browser.ht
>> ml>>
>>
>>
>> <
http://stromberg.dnsalias.org/%7Estrombrg/pybrowser/python-browser.html
>>
>> <
http://stromberg.dnsalias.org/%7Estrombrg/pybrowser/python-browser.ht
>> ml>>
>>
>> Where would be a good place to start a
>> discussion on the
>> topic?
>>
>> I am self-employed with multiple
>> demands on
>> my time so I
>> cannot afford to allocate sufficient
>> time to
>> learn it let
>> alone undertake formal Javascript
>> training. My
>> hope is to
>> pick it up by osmosis and wonder if a
>> transpiler would help.
>>
>> Thanks for any pointers
>>
>> Mike
>>
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