reads and just keep plugging along. I'm going to sort of circle back
and see if it wouldn't be a good idea to restart my project with a
fresh set of eyes now that I've spent a bit of time with Django.
Derek,
The test cookie thing is -- as I understand it -- you place a test
cookie, then check if it's there. It's basically a check to see if
the browser accepts cookies. I'm just not entirely sure when I should
and shouldn't make the check when using parts of the built-in auth
moduel. I guess if I'm using the login view, it's will test for me.
I sort of started with the whole auth system, then backed out of using
the form and the view just to learn how it works on a basic level.
And in browsing the code, I saw the test cookie functions and did some
research.
Thanks again!
Robin
On May 31, 8:07 am, Derek <gamesb...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On May 30, 9:30 pm, Robin <robin.sa...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > A little while ago, I was approached about building a basic web site
> > for a small store. The requirements were pretty typical and read like
> > a menu of web development tutorials. This was to be a data driven
> > site that any decent web developer could build. I, however, am not a
> > web developer, decent or otherwise. So, I turned the assignment down
> > and decided it's time I looked into learning something about web
> > development.
>
> > I looked at everything from ASP to Java to PHP and even the likes of
> > Drupal and Joomla. I liked the ideas and patterns behind Django as a
> > framework ( MVC = :) ) and Python as a language. The combination
> > seemed like perfect middle ground to me. Things were going well as I
> > worked through the tutorial and explored the documentation to dig
> > deeper into core Django topics. Where am I today?
>
> > I'm struggling a bit with Django, to be honest. Or maybe I'm
> > struggling with Python, I'm not completely certain which. Maybe it's
> > because I'm trying to learn web development and Python at the same
> > time. I'm certainly no genius, but I'm not a bonehead either...at
> > least my mother doesn't think so. ;)
>
> > The individual technical ideas are presented well and I can always
> > find enough information to learn more. But Django as a whole feels
> > less cohesive. Or maybe it's that Django sometimes feels...TOO
> > flexible? There are certainly a lot of choices in terms of how much
> > Django to use and how much to roll yourself. Guidance seems to be
> > offered on a per-module basis. Maybe that's just how it is and I'm
> > looking for structure where there is none available.
>
> > I'm not sure what to override...when to call the super classes
> > corresponding method. Do I have to concern myself with the test
> > cookie idea? Should I name my URLs? Is mixing positional and keyword
> > arguments OK? Are generic views the best way, or just the quickest
> > way?
>
> > I guess it boils down to a concern over making poor choices and
> > learning bad habits. If I'm going to spend any amount of time with
> > this web development hing, I want to do it right. I'm also fighting
> > my urge to build everything myself. Sure it would be plenty flexible,
> > but it would also take longer and wouldn't leverage the great work
> > done by all of Django's contributors.
>
> > So, what am I rattling on about then?
>
> > Judging by some of the posts I've read since joining the group, I'm
> > sure there are a bunch of folks who would appreciate some guidance
> > and / or best practices from the more experienced Django developers.
> > I understand everyone learns and progresses differently, but I would
> > really appreciate your take on things.
>
> > How much do you use built in Django functionality? Are there
> > components you tend to avoid? Do you use Django only for certain
> > types of projects? Do you struggle with Python or Django? Is the
> > source code a good place to spend some time? Is your authentication
> > system home-grown? Have you been bitten in the behind by using too
> > much Django? Not enough?
>
> > I realize this is a lot to ask, but I think it's a good thing that we
> > help newer developers do things the right way. I certainyl want to
> > become a contributing member of this group, but not until I won't give
> > bad advice and flat out wrong answers. ;)
>
> > I've gone through a good chunk of the Django Book online. Is this a
> > good resource or do you have other recommendations? There aren't all
> > that many books on Django, but there are a few. Do any do a better
> > job than the others of guiding you to the best way to build web
> > sites / apps? I sure wish there was a book that kept pace with the
> > changes and the miost recent version. Is the fact that there isn't
> > much available a bad sign?
>
> > Just jump in and adjust as I learn my lessons?
>
> > Regards,
>
> > Robin
>
> Hi Robin
>
> Not sure I can address all your issues, so I will just pick up on a
> few...
>
> One thing from the start -> " If I'm going to spend any amount of time
> with this web development thing, I want to do it right." You will -
> eventually. Its often really hard to do it right first time because
> you do not have enough experience to know if you're making a mistake!
> Getting going, doing stuff and maybe putting out in public the parts
> you are most concerned/unsure about is the best way to get the
> experience...
>
> "struggling with Python"
>
> I cannot say that its essential to know Python in depth before
> starting web programming, but I would say it would be a huge help.
>
> Its not clear what programming experience you have. If none, then its
> worth starting with the basics of programming. If you have some, then
> try and find a comparison between the language you used and Python
> (pref. written by a Python person).
>
> Some useful "getting started" tutorials:
> *http://docs.activestate.com/activepython/2.5/easytut/index.html
> *http://www.gidnetwork.com/b-26.html
>
> After reading and trying out what someone else has done, try and build
> stand-alone stuff in Python. A simple use case is accessing and
> processing Excel spreadsheets using xlwt and xlrd. If you ever have
> to do any data processing for third-parties, you're almost bound to
> use/re-use what you have done here. Otherwise think of a common need
> from the area you work in.
>
> "struggling with Django"
>
> Django is meant to be comprehensive. That's good if you want to be
> able to do anything, but bad if you're just getting started. If I
> showed my old self from 2 years ago the code that I have written
> today, I'd be overwhelmed, no doubt. Learning programming is
> incremental and experiential. You learn code by writing; and improve
> code by writing more. Remember (and this is easy to forget!!) that
> the entire source code of Django is open to you... take some time and
> read some of it - Python is designed to be a readable language. If
> its too overwhelming, then try and look at the code of some of the
> apps that are out there (and there are lots!). You'll see an entire
> "module" and start to get some idea of how it all hangs together.
> Then try it yourself; maybe start with something already there and
> make changes to it until it breaks - try and figure out why - fix it -
> and keep going. Use the same basic concepts to try and build
> something new-ish yourself from scratch. As you go along and get
> really stuck, post questions to the list (and please check first in
> the archives - many people experience similar problems).
>
> Q&A
>
> Q: How much do you use built in Django functionality?
> A: All the time!
>
> Q: Are there components you tend to avoid?
> A: None that come to mind; but I just use the ones I really need
> ("learn as you go").
>
> Q: Do you use Django only for certain types of projects?
> A: Its my primary web development framework; in my situation there is
> no need to use multiple ones (and probably not a good idea when you're
> just starting)
>
> Q: Do you struggle with Python or Django?
> A: Often - but that is when I *know* that I am learning
>
> Q: Is the source code a good place to spend some time?
> A: See above.
>
> Q: Is your authentication system home-grown?
> A: Nope; using 'auth' works for me
>
> Q: Have you been bitten in the behind by using too much Django?
> A: Not so far...
>
> Q: I sure wish there was a book that kept pace with the changes and
> the most recent version. Is the fact that there isn't much available
> a bad sign?
> A: Depends if you think the publishing industry is keeping up with the
> web programming industry ;) I think you'll have to get one of the
> committers to answer that; but to be honest I would rather they fixed
> bugs and added features than wrote books (my 2c). In the meantime,
> the online docs are readable, comprehensive and up-to-date. Django
> has one of the most well-documented codebase of any open source
> project.
>
> Hope some of this helps - welcome to the community!
>
> Derek
>
> P.S. "Do I have to concern myself with the test cookie idea? I have
> no idea what this is... please enlighten me!
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